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starwomyn 70F
5469 posts
3/11/2018 12:34 pm

Last Read:
4/25/2018 10:25 pm

Does God REALLY Choose Football Teams (or Political Parties)

If Folks pray for a football team to win does it mean that God loves the other team less. Sometimes there are valuable lessons to be found in losing. It can be a chance to evaluate shortcomings, fix them and do better next time Perhaps, it is just a game and one team practiced more, did everything they were suppose to do and didn't party before the game. Faith without works is dead.

What about political parties. Is it really a contest of evil against good? Conservatives/Liberals - what great sin do you plan to commit today? Today, I debated on rather to stay in bed or get up and go to Church. I went to church and the building didn't fall down. I have no plans to rob any banks, beat up any conservatives or write any poison pen blogs.

There is much ado about Trump's ill gotten sensual gratification with a Porn Star. I hope the Democrats are not dumb enough to spend billions of tax dollars to investigate it just because the GOP did the same with Clinton's unsavory oral pleasure in the Oval Office. A person would have to be in fantasyland to conclude that either man is a patron of virtue. Personally, I would rather read about Michelle Obama's community gardening project. It is far more interesting.

So what great sins are the conservatives planning on entertaining this week. Will they buy AK-47's on their way to the Opera along with the "God Hates Bare Naked Ladies" signs that they plan on carrying.

It is my not so humble opinion that worldly values suck swamp water no matter what political label they come from, It is my goal to rise above it - one day at a time.




Abracadabra


starwomyn 70F
8871 posts
3/11/2018 12:35 pm



Abracadabra


MrsJoe 76F
17309 posts
3/11/2018 4:09 pm

Of course not..... but if one is a Christian, it is always good to seek His presence and guidance in all areas of our lives. Your last statement is very admirable, and one that I too am trying to do. One day at a time.
Sometimes, I take one step forward and two back, but other days I take three steps forward and one step back, so I hope I am making progress.


Be a prism, spreading God's light and love, not a mirror reflecting the world's hatred.


sparkleflit 76F
10271 posts
3/11/2018 6:34 pm

    Quoting MrsJoe:
    Of course not..... but if one is a Christian, it is always good to seek His presence and guidance in all areas of our lives. Your last statement is very admirable, and one that I too am trying to do. One day at a time.
    Sometimes, I take one step forward and two back, but other days I take three steps forward and one step back, so I hope I am making progress.
But how can you be sure the God you are addressing is the same one that sends you the "guidance"?...........Maybe they are all vying for position,
or perhaps they are collaborating on some elaborate scheme to play jokes on Humans merely to entertain themselves.......the dimension where the Gods hang out must be really crowded by now.......Going by the descriptions in the Holy books, the Gods are extremely jealous of each other.....lots of competition.....who knows what they're up to these days.


MrsJoe 76F
17309 posts
3/11/2018 7:16 pm

    Quoting sparkleflit:
    But how can you be sure the God you are addressing is the same one that sends you the "guidance"?...........Maybe they are all vying for position,
    or perhaps they are collaborating on some elaborate scheme to play jokes on Humans merely to entertain themselves.......the dimension where the Gods hang out must be really crowded by now.......Going by the descriptions in the Holy books, the Gods are extremely jealous of each other.....lots of competition.....who knows what they're up to these days.
Lulu, if a person is a Christian, he/she has but one God.
There are many things I do not know or understand, but one thing of which I am certain and that is when I "address" my Father (God) it is He who sends me guidance or whatever else it is that I seek from Him.
I believe it is a parent/child relationship. Just as when my child would address me, I would not allow someone else to step in and answer him/her, I don't believe my Father allows it either.


Be a prism, spreading God's light and love, not a mirror reflecting the world's hatred.


starwomyn 70F
8871 posts
3/11/2018 7:30 pm

    Quoting sparkleflit:
    But how can you be sure the God you are addressing is the same one that sends you the "guidance"?...........Maybe they are all vying for position,
    or perhaps they are collaborating on some elaborate scheme to play jokes on Humans merely to entertain themselves.......the dimension where the Gods hang out must be really crowded by now.......Going by the descriptions in the Holy books, the Gods are extremely jealous of each other.....lots of competition.....who knows what they're up to these days.
Gotta Love those MOCKINGbirds. Didn't someone write a song about them.

There is a big difference between spiritual fruit and religious nuts. It is just my humble observation. My life seems to work better when I am trying to follow some kind of spiritual path.

Abracadabra


starwomyn 70F
8871 posts
3/11/2018 7:42 pm

    Quoting  :

My plans this week is to send Fossil an all expense paid trip to see Georgia Tech beat Crimson Tide and steal his Mary Jane shoes.

Abracadabra


sparkleflit 76F
10271 posts
3/11/2018 9:00 pm

    Quoting  :

I'n not mocking anyone.....why are you so quick to start something?.....I'm curious is all.....I've read the Bible and studied Catechism and know what Christians believe in general, but I have a lot of questions. When people discuss their Religion on a public site, they can't expect only those who have the same experiences to respond.......Why is it different than discussing politics? Because Maisie says?.........

I'm trying to understand how religious people think the universe works, is all........Mrs Joe may recognize only one God, but there are billions of people who believe in other Gods.......Are they aware of each other?....you know, like the Greek or Norse Gods and many other Religions who believe in a Pantheon of Gods.......Being a Catholic, you must have been taught about the saints....the hierarchies.......The Mother of God and the Father and Jesus and the Holy Ghost....a Pantheon of sorts........The year between 18 and 19, I went to a different church every Sunday on the recommendation of my spiritual adviser.......Each church I went to had a different set of beliefs about how to interpret the triune nature of God......It was very confusing......I have read and attended many teachings of Christian Mysticism......and have seen how much alike the different religions and Christian Denominations are to each other......but in practice, the different denominations all believe their particular take on the nature of God is the right one.....sort of like political parties.........I'm curious about what people I interact with on this site actually think in terms of their religious experience, but apparently it's worse than asking about their sex lives.....TABU....SOCIAL TABU ....Maisie, you are such a prude....a religion prude.


starwomyn 70F
8871 posts
3/11/2018 10:37 pm

    Quoting sparkleflit:
    I'n not mocking anyone.....why are you so quick to start something?.....I'm curious is all.....I've read the Bible and studied Catechism and know what Christians believe in general, but I have a lot of questions. When people discuss their Religion on a public site, they can't expect only those who have the same experiences to respond.......Why is it different than discussing politics? Because Maisie says?.........

    I'm trying to understand how religious people think the universe works, is all........Mrs Joe may recognize only one God, but there are billions of people who believe in other Gods.......Are they aware of each other?....you know, like the Greek or Norse Gods and many other Religions who believe in a Pantheon of Gods.......Being a Catholic, you must have been taught about the saints....the hierarchies.......The Mother of God and the Father and Jesus and the Holy Ghost....a Pantheon of sorts........The year between 18 and 19, I went to a different church every Sunday on the recommendation of my spiritual adviser.......Each church I went to had a different set of beliefs about how to interpret the triune nature of God......It was very confusing......I have read and attended many teachings of Christian Mysticism......and have seen how much alike the different religions and Christian Denominations are to each other......but in practice, the different denominations all believe their particular take on the nature of God is the right one.....sort of like political parties.........I'm curious about what people I interact with on this site actually think in terms of their religious experience, but apparently it's worse than asking about their sex lives.....TABU....SOCIAL TABU ....Maisie, you are such a prude....a religion prude.

There is a difference between Spirituality and Religion. It really is an individual journey and up to the individual to find the path that works best for them.

Abracadabra


Katie_au_lait 78F
7026 posts
3/12/2018 1:42 am

    Quoting  :

Why do you believe that asking questions is mocking people?
And why do you believe that doing "worse" is praying for atheists?
You obviously cannot grasp that atheists just do not believe in Gods of any kind.
All praying for them does is project your feelings about their beliefs! It means absolutely nothing to them at all...so, if you think you are mocking them, carry on.


starwomyn 70F
8871 posts
3/12/2018 7:21 am

    Quoting Katie_au_lait:
    Why do you believe that asking questions is mocking people?
    And why do you believe that doing "worse" is praying for atheists?
    You obviously cannot grasp that atheists just do not believe in Gods of any kind.
    All praying for them does is project your feelings about their beliefs! It means absolutely nothing to them at all...so, if you think you are mocking them, carry on.
Some people ask questions to get answers and others ask questions with the intention of ridiculing. Most of us can tell the difference. It's called mocking along with gas lighting. Prayers may not help the atheist mindset but it certainly won't hurt it.

Abracadabra


sparkleflit 76F
10271 posts
3/12/2018 9:39 am

    Quoting  :

Maisie, you did bring a sledge hammer......You may not realize it. but your fanaticism is becoming more pronounced every day.......maybe praying for calmness and peace would be helpful.......you're like a guard-dog, exploding from under the porch, snarling and barking with your teeth bared.

I ask for philosophical clarification on some statements made......not addressed to you, I might add, and you accuse me of mockery.....(Wittgenstein asked similar questions) and you explode from under the porch and accuse me of being represented by some American hate group........did you forget to take your medication again?


sparkleflit 76F
10271 posts
3/12/2018 10:08 am

    Quoting starwomyn:
    There is a difference between Spirituality and Religion. It really is an individual journey and up to the individual to find the path that works best for them.
Apparently, many people are so steeped in their own religious beliefs,
perhaps from early childhood and have never explored other philosophies, or tried to look at the thinking involved in their religion in a deliberately neutral way.
When we practice mind-neutrality as a philosophical exercise, it becomes clear that there are many assumptions based on Christianity that are extremely antithetical to observable reality. The transition from observable reality to Christian reality is so habitual for many that when someone asks them to identify particulars of that transition, they feel so uncomfortable and defensive that they lash out the person asking for clarification.......even when it's done in a playful way.


starwomyn 70F
8871 posts
3/12/2018 10:34 am

    Quoting sparkleflit:
    Apparently, many people are so steeped in their own religious beliefs,
    perhaps from early childhood and have never explored other philosophies, or tried to look at the thinking involved in their religion in a deliberately neutral way.
    When we practice mind-neutrality as a philosophical exercise, it becomes clear that there are many assumptions based on Christianity that are extremely antithetical to observable reality. The transition from observable reality to Christian reality is so habitual for many that when someone asks them to identify particulars of that transition, they feel so uncomfortable and defensive that they lash out the person asking for clarification.......even when it's done in a playful way.


I do believe many people HAVE explored other philosophies and found the path that works best for them. I know this is true for Mrs.Joe - her hubby started out as Catholic and they both landed in a Charismatic Church. I have found it more practical to look at the similarities versus the differences. Last week, I attended a service at a Catholic Cathedral. This week, it was not practical for me to attend my usual Quaker Service so I walked down to street to attend a service at an Episcopal Church. Ironically both services were awesome. Faith takes over where reason leaves off.” Taken this way, rationality is seen as a bridge that reaches only partway across a great chasm; faith is needed to complete the bridge and reach the other side.

Abracadabra


starwomyn 70F
8871 posts
3/12/2018 10:49 am

    Quoting  :

The mindset that some Atheists have is ridiculous or even individuals who are intolerant of anyone else's mindset other than their own.

I remember when Phil Robinson expressed his opinions about Gays based on his religious beliefs and there were some folks who wanted him kicked off his television show. The man openly represented himself as a fundamentalist Christian so why the surprise that he thinks the way he does. Good, bad or indifferent, there is a constitutional right to think that way.

I disagree with a merchant who refuses to bake a wedding cake or make a flower arrangement for a Gay Couple based on religious reasons but ruining the merchants financially is really mean-spirited and extreme.

.


Abracadabra


jiminycricket1 73M
13732 posts
3/12/2018 11:20 am

    Quoting  :

there's a BIG difference between Righteousness and Rightness.... You can't seem to comprehend...

The hypocrisy which lies between the two.....is God, as defined by man and religion.

In so many ways.. The right thing for you. May not be the Right thing for someone else..
The Right way for you.. may not be the Right way for someone else.

The righteousness is to let YOUR God... be YOUR judge..
The Rightness. is YOU playing God to others..

I'm not sure what mrsjoe thought of Sparkle's response, as it related to her comment.. IT may not have been justified , on that particular comment alone
But this i do know........Mrsjoe either understands it and is NOT challenged by it.
Or misunderstands it and is challenged by it.. It's for her to decide.. not YOU.


Katie_au_lait 78F
7026 posts
3/12/2018 11:59 am

    Quoting  :

How typical...you blame me for your misunderstanding of my comment!

That's ok ...everyone else understood what I was saying.


jiminycricket1 73M
13732 posts
3/12/2018 1:15 pm

    Quoting MrsJoe:
    Of course not..... but if one is a Christian, it is always good to seek His presence and guidance in all areas of our lives. Your last statement is very admirable, and one that I too am trying to do. One day at a time.
    Sometimes, I take one step forward and two back, but other days I take three steps forward and one step back, so I hope I am making progress.
The battle for progress you are making is no different than that of most of US..
Compassion, Love, forgiveness,and understanding...We all Try to do it.
We fight it everyday.....
Whether one chooses God to be their guiding light or not.. It's all really, all the same.. a way of defining the conflict of good and evil... And being able to tell the difference, no matter the criteria...Whether someone believes in God or not.. the belief only matter through attributes one believes that God stand for....In no way can one use God. to justify it, to be excuse from it, or to blame Him for it.

Where we need to draw the line........ Is not in believing in God.. but in USING God, as an excuse, or to blame.. You can't throw up God to other's and Others can't throw up God.. He's stays in our stomachs, no matter if we think logic has removed Him, from our hearts and mind...... ......It's NEVER ...God's fault.

but If man eats the straw... he's gonna sh*t the bricks.
Man is jsut a lump of clay..... you know?....


sparkleflit 76F
10271 posts
3/12/2018 2:44 pm

I understand that people believe there is only one God. What I am struggling to understand is what they do with all the other Gods. If I say I don't believe in the existence of your particular God, you don't call me an Atheist. If I say I believe in any other "God", you accept that and say that you believe in freedom of religion. If I lack belief in any God, you call me an Atheist. But there are thousands of Gods that you don't believe exist......Mrs Joe apparently thinks her particular God is the only one that exists. That makes her an Atheist in all but one case......Atheists are those who go just one God further than Mrs. Joe.........People who believe in other Gods are just as certain that only the God they worship is the only existent God.

The logistical problem is obvious. Gods are non existent in the same sense that we use the term "exist"in all other contexts. All other contexts. And that brings me back to my original post that brought Maisie snarling from under the porch......(That's a metaphor by the way, you know, a figure of speech, not an existent reality.

But in the minds of the faithful, God is not a metaphor......god has thoughts and emotions and agency.....but not form......God exists apart from Nature, but has agency to control nature.........Billions of Humans over tens of thousands, perhaps millions of years have defined God in their own way.......they still do.....and you tell me that there is only one God, or you believe in the "existence" of only one God........that somehow, you have just lucked out in being born into a culture that worships the One True God.......and all the other billions are just talking to themselves..........And everyone else is supposed to just accept that without question.........unlike every other opinion Humans have.....and no, I don't like Chloe Kardashian's belly-button ring.


starwomyn 70F
8871 posts
3/12/2018 4:35 pm

    Quoting sparkleflit:
    I understand that people believe there is only one God. What I am struggling to understand is what they do with all the other Gods. If I say I don't believe in the existence of your particular God, you don't call me an Atheist. If I say I believe in any other "God", you accept that and say that you believe in freedom of religion. If I lack belief in any God, you call me an Atheist. But there are thousands of Gods that you don't believe exist......Mrs Joe apparently thinks her particular God is the only one that exists. That makes her an Atheist in all but one case......Atheists are those who go just one God further than Mrs. Joe.........People who believe in other Gods are just as certain that only the God they worship is the only existent God.

    The logistical problem is obvious. Gods are non existent in the same sense that we use the term "exist"in all other contexts. All other contexts. And that brings me back to my original post that brought Maisie snarling from under the porch......(That's a metaphor by the way, you know, a figure of speech, not an existent reality.

    But in the minds of the faithful, God is not a metaphor......god has thoughts and emotions and agency.....but not form......God exists apart from Nature, but has agency to control nature.........Billions of Humans over tens of thousands, perhaps millions of years have defined God in their own way.......they still do.....and you tell me that there is only one God, or you believe in the "existence" of only one God........that somehow, you have just lucked out in being born into a culture that worships the One True God.......and all the other billions are just talking to themselves..........And everyone else is supposed to just accept that without question.........unlike every other opinion Humans have.....and no, I don't like Chloe Kardashian's belly-button ring.
I have struggled with a lot of these questions myself. I have explored many different paths and have concluded that I REALLY don't have to figure it all out for everyone else. That is the beauty of the Constitution and First Amendment.

It is ironic that the Nations that are predominantly Christian are the ones that prosper while people from other nations are clamoring to get here to get away from poverty and that the fact that they are killing each other in the name of religion. Granted this is something that early Christians did to each other but they learned from the past and Freedom of Religious choice was born
.

Abracadabra


sparkleflit 76F
10271 posts
3/12/2018 6:00 pm

    Quoting  :

Like I've pointed out before, it is quite obvious that the Right side of your brain is low-functioning and you have no patience for self-reflection, or any kind of reflection, it seems.....I just wonder why you persist in commenting on subjects you obviously have no interest in, let alone understanding of......


sparkleflit 76F
10271 posts
3/12/2018 6:03 pm

    Quoting starwomyn:
    I have struggled with a lot of these questions myself. I have explored many different paths and have concluded that I REALLY don't have to figure it all out for everyone else. That is the beauty of the Constitution and First Amendment.

    It is ironic that the Nations that are predominantly Christian are the ones that prosper while people from other nations are clamoring to get here to get away from poverty and that the fact that they are killing each other in the name of religion. Granted this is something that early Christians did to each other but they learned from the past and Freedom of Religious choice was born.
That's not true at all.....the most successful nations today have an Atheist majority......even the US has a quickly increasing population of "nones'.


sparkleflit 76F
10271 posts
3/12/2018 6:10 pm

    Quoting starwomyn:
    I have struggled with a lot of these questions myself. I have explored many different paths and have concluded that I REALLY don't have to figure it all out for everyone else. That is the beauty of the Constitution and First Amendment.

    It is ironic that the Nations that are predominantly Christian are the ones that prosper while people from other nations are clamoring to get here to get away from poverty and that the fact that they are killing each other in the name of religion. Granted this is something that early Christians did to each other but they learned from the past and Freedom of Religious choice was born.
You seem to be implying that I'm trying to "figure it out" for everyone else.
I'm not.....and I have never thought about Philosophy in those terms......I have never thought there was an "it" to figure out. I have encountered a strange phenomena on SFF that I don't find in any other area of my life. It's a distrust of knowledge for it's own sake.....that thinking needs to have a practical result.......that wondering for the love of wonder is suspect somehow.........strange.


starwomyn 70F
8871 posts
3/12/2018 6:36 pm

    Quoting sparkleflit:
    That's not true at all.....the most successful nations today have an Atheist majority......even the US has a quickly increasing population of "nones'.
Atheist Nations? Like the Defaulted Soviet Union? Red China is mandatory Atheism. India is polythism with a high poverty rate. How successful are some of the 3rd World Nations like Haiti or the Islamic Nations where people are desperate to leave and come here where the culture is very different than where they came from.

Freedom of Religion was a burning issue in early American History. The people frequently travelled together in tight little communities that shared that same religion for generations but eventually expanded


Abracadabra


starwomyn 70F
8871 posts
3/12/2018 8:28 pm

“To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible.”
― St. Thomas Aquinas


Abracadabra


jiminycricket1 73M
13732 posts
3/12/2018 10:00 pm

    Quoting sparkleflit:
    I understand that people believe there is only one God. What I am struggling to understand is what they do with all the other Gods. If I say I don't believe in the existence of your particular God, you don't call me an Atheist. If I say I believe in any other "God", you accept that and say that you believe in freedom of religion. If I lack belief in any God, you call me an Atheist. But there are thousands of Gods that you don't believe exist......Mrs Joe apparently thinks her particular God is the only one that exists. That makes her an Atheist in all but one case......Atheists are those who go just one God further than Mrs. Joe.........People who believe in other Gods are just as certain that only the God they worship is the only existent God.

    The logistical problem is obvious. Gods are non existent in the same sense that we use the term "exist"in all other contexts. All other contexts. And that brings me back to my original post that brought Maisie snarling from under the porch......(That's a metaphor by the way, you know, a figure of speech, not an existent reality.

    But in the minds of the faithful, God is not a metaphor......god has thoughts and emotions and agency.....but not form......God exists apart from Nature, but has agency to control nature.........Billions of Humans over tens of thousands, perhaps millions of years have defined God in their own way.......they still do.....and you tell me that there is only one God, or you believe in the "existence" of only one God........that somehow, you have just lucked out in being born into a culture that worships the One True God.......and all the other billions are just talking to themselves..........And everyone else is supposed to just accept that without question.........unlike every other opinion Humans have.....and no, I don't like Chloe Kardashian's belly-button ring.
It's really WAY TOO simplistic..

If there is only one true God.. then all other God must be false..
to express that idea. is what defies the logic of it.. AS we express that idea to other1.. it become evident that there is no GOD, but false Gods.. thus you don't have the evidence to support "one true God" that you can express..

God by definition can not have false gods before him. Only man can have false Gods.
There may only be "One True God"....But as one tries to define that God to others...that in itself.. becomes a false God. God taking form and substance...God being a specific thing to certain different people... God having "the choosen".... God "the punisher", God "the justifier", A God who has to point out who are the "false God".
Is but a false. God... Not a man made in the image of God, but God made in the image of man....

For atheists.. all they see is false gods....All you teach them about is a false god.. all that condemns them is a false God...So I ask you.. how can you show them your "one true God" when what you do... you do in the name of a false God.


sparkleflit 76F
10271 posts
3/14/2018 9:46 am

    Quoting starwomyn:
    Atheist Nations? Like the Defaulted Soviet Union? Red China is mandatory Atheism. India is polythism with a high poverty rate. How successful are some of the 3rd World Nations like Haiti or the Islamic Nations where people are desperate to leave and come here where the culture is very different than where they came from.

    Freedom of Religion was a burning issue in early American History. The people frequently travelled together in tight little communities that shared that same religion for generations but eventually expanded
By "Atheist Nations" I'm referring to nations where the majority of citizens answer "none" when asked for religious affiliation. All the Scandinavian countries as well as much of Western Europe and Japan fall into this category.