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Skariff2 65M
4097 posts
11/14/2017 7:39 pm
The Maisie Defense


This is just too good to let go by. Rush Limbaugh, apparently in defense of Judge Roy Moore, reported today the judge was a democrat at the time he committed those egregious crimes. Based on that admission, apparently when one switches from a Dixiecrat to a Republican not only do his illegal fetishes disappear, but responsibility for his peccadilloes miraculously changes from abhorrent to acceptable. If this isn't a perfect example of the Maisie mindset please provide a better one.

Prejudice cannot be conquered with logic, logic didn't instill it and logic cannot eradicate it.


earthytaurus3 77F
35703 posts
11/14/2017 8:18 pm

Touche' ...... BUT, don't kid yourself. Maisie will have a google response beyond rational to combat and/or twist your perception of reality. She's made it her claim to fame, her specialty; after all, she lived in DC let's not forget. Amazingly, in real life, I don't meet people like this. At age 77, and on an almost daily basis, I come here to marvel at naivete' . Sadly, it's paramount.

Forgive me, but when I think of Maisie, I'm always reminded of the opening lines in The Great Gatsby where Nick Carraway recalls the wise words of his father that advised he must always remember that not everyone has been given the advantages he has. Oddly enough, were I to meet Maise in the flesh, I think I'd like her.


Katie_au_lait 71F
5589 posts
11/14/2017 11:50 pm

Skariff, I've just been reading about yet another shooting spree...this one in California.

I can guess what Maisie (and a few others will) have to say... something along the lines of..."See I told you so! California is a liberal state, guns don't kill, people do. IT'S ALL THE LIBERALS FAULT!!!"

I'm pretty sure the dead and injured and their families, friends and neighbours don't give a damn what the killer's politics or beliefs were. It's heartbreaking and life-changing enough to have to deal with their devastating loss.

Until people start accepting and dealing with their responsibility in allowing these horrific events to happen, lives will continue to be lost... more and more each year. And all of it, simply because the gun lovers want to point the finger of blame at anyone but themselves.

“A person may cause evil to others not only by his actions but by his inaction, and in either case he is justly accountable to them for the injury.”
― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty


Katie_au_lait 71F
5589 posts
11/14/2017 11:52 pm

Go back to bed you old fossil.


Lisztomania 67M
8909 posts
11/15/2017 2:08 am

The Skariff mindset: brazenly use and abuse the association fallacy. Find a nut job who sits on the same side of the aisle in church as your foe of the moment, and dump all the nut job's positions on him/her. Only ET would not see through this reasoning.


jiminycricket1 67M
8164 posts
11/15/2017 3:18 am

Roy Moore stated his platform.....

"BRING GOD TO THE CAPITOL"


jiminycricket1 67M
8164 posts
11/15/2017 3:32 am

The safest way to be when one believes there is a pervert behind every door.

Is to lock themselves in a closet!


LeafExchange 66M
993 posts
11/15/2017 4:35 am

I think Maisie is tired. It's an arduous task to defend right wing racism, sexual perversion, climate denier stupidity, violent unstable gun nut kid killers, greed, war mongering, subversive political activity, disabled people vomiting on sidewalks without access to health care, torture, coal ash in rivers, American citizens in Puerto Rico and daily lies from the republican party and Trump himself. It's not an easy endeavor, defending bathroom peeping, ridiculous statements by Rick Perry, bullying, genital grabbing and fraudulent voter fraud investigations.


Skariff2 65M
2466 posts
11/15/2017 5:30 am

    Quoting Lisztomania:
    The Skariff mindset: brazenly use and abuse the association fallacy. Find a nut job who sits on the same side of the aisle in church as your foe of the moment, and dump all the nut job's positions on him/her. Only ET would not see through this reasoning.
Speaking of mindsets.......friend or foe, ALL the nut job's positions......fine examples of that black/white, yes/no, right/wrong, extremist mindset leaving no room for the gray area which comprises the vast majority of the world.

I don't know how two people living hundreds, if not thousands, of miles apart and have never been in the same room with each other can be either friend or foe. In a work titled "Nichomachean Ethics", Aristotle listed ten requirements of friendship. Of the ten, six of them require face to face encounters. We all get so attuned to casting folks into pigeon holes based on our own skewed opinions I have come to believe we lose out on many interesting alliances due to a false assessment. I always remember the words of my grandfather who once told me no matter what gender you happen to be, if you see someone of the opposite gender walking down the street and that other person is extremely attractive, keep in mind somewhere there is another person who thinks that extremely attractive person is an idiot. For those of you who can imagine, there are corollaries galore of this principle. And that's why differences of opinion are not necessarily personal affronts, they are only if you allow them to be.

Prejudice cannot be conquered with logic, logic didn't instill it and logic cannot eradicate it.


Maisie2013 66F
16211 posts
11/15/2017 6:24 am

    Quoting Katie_au_lait:
    Skariff, I've just been reading about yet another shooting spree...this one in California.

    I can guess what Maisie (and a few others will) have to say... something along the lines of..."See I told you so! California is a liberal state, guns don't kill, people do. IT'S ALL THE LIBERALS FAULT!!!"

    I'm pretty sure the dead and injured and their families, friends and neighbours don't give a damn what the killer's politics or beliefs were. It's heartbreaking and life-changing enough to have to deal with their devastating loss.

    Until people start accepting and dealing with their responsibility in allowing these horrific events to happen, lives will continue to be lost... more and more each year. And all of it, simply because the gun lovers want to point the finger of blame at anyone but themselves.

    “A person may cause evil to others not only by his actions but by his inaction, and in either case he is justly accountable to them for the injury.”
    ― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty


That's a good one- somehow everyone who believes in the 2nd Amendment is responsible for the mentally ill who get a gun and kill people.
And somehow they " allow " a shooting thousands of miles away.
Perhaps some mass arrests are in order- a few million people might be a good start.


Maisie2013 66F
16211 posts
11/15/2017 6:27 am

I have no idea what Rush Limbaugh says. I have never listened to him, nor do I intend to . But no matter what side of the aisle you are on, the political party one belongs to , if you molest young girls, has nothing to do with anything.

Guilt by association is meaningless, right Skariff ?


Maisie2013 66F
16211 posts
11/15/2017 6:37 am

    Quoting earthytaurus3:
    Touche' ...... BUT, don't kid yourself. Maisie will have a google response beyond rational to combat and/or twist your perception of reality. She's made it her claim to fame, her specialty; after all, she lived in DC let's not forget. Amazingly, in real life, I don't meet people like this. At age 77, and on an almost daily basis, I come here to marvel at naivete' . Sadly, it's paramount.

    Forgive me, but when I think of Maisie, I'm always reminded of the opening lines in The Great Gatsby where Nick Carraway recalls the wise words of his father that advised he must always remember that not everyone has been given the advantages he has. Oddly enough, were I to meet Maise in the flesh, I think I'd like her.


I got Conservative as I got older, mostly because the Democrats went way, way Left . Jack Kennedy would not recognize his party, were he still alive.
What was slightly left of center in the 60's , is far right now.


bob77O21__ 74M
7551 posts
11/15/2017 6:41 am

    Quoting LeafExchange:
    I think Maisie is tired. It's an arduous task to defend right wing racism, sexual perversion, climate denier stupidity, violent unstable gun nut kid killers, greed, war mongering, subversive political activity, disabled people vomiting on sidewalks without access to health care, torture, coal ash in rivers, American citizens in Puerto Rico and daily lies from the republican party and Trump himself. It's not an easy endeavor, defending bathroom peeping, ridiculous statements by Rick Perry, bullying, genital grabbing and fraudulent voter fraud investigations.
Go drink your tea.


LeafExchange 66M
993 posts
11/15/2017 7:25 am

Hi Bob...I thought I saw you at the store. People were gathered around shopping for a turkey for Thanksgiving. There was a strange item in the bin and I briefly thought of you...eggplant. Someone said...'get that thing out of there. A bald guy picked it up and he disappeared around the corner in search of a hat in utter hopelessness.


Katie_au_lait 71F
5589 posts
11/15/2017 7:43 am

    Quoting Maisie2013:
    That's a good one- somehow everyone who believes in the 2nd Amendment is responsible for the mentally ill who get a gun and kill people.
    And somehow they " allow " a shooting thousands of miles away.
    Perhaps some mass arrests are in order- a few million people might be a good start.

Yes they are...by blocking any alteration to gun-laws you make yourself complicit in the murder of hundreds of Americans. You are sitting back allowing it to happen So, yes you are part of the problem.

Your head is so far up your arse, you'll be biting your tongue if you are not careful.


Katie_au_lait 71F
5589 posts
11/15/2017 7:49 am

    Quoting Maisie2013:
    I have no idea what Rush Limbaugh says. I have never listened to him, nor do I intend to . But no matter what side of the aisle you are on, the political party one belongs to , if you molest young girls, has nothing to do with anything.

    Guilt by association is meaningless, right Skariff ?
"Guilt by association is meaningless, right Skariff ?"

And, of course, you never do that right maisie???

Only in every blog you write.


Maisie2013 66F
16211 posts
11/15/2017 9:08 am

    Quoting Katie_au_lait:
    Yes they are...by blocking any alteration to gun-laws you make yourself complicit in the murder of hundreds of Americans. You are sitting back allowing it to happen So, yes you are part of the problem.

    Your head is so far up your arse, you'll be biting your tongue if you are not careful.
Since you are the expert- what exact changes would you make to the current laws? I will leave this an open-ended question so you are free to be as creative as you want.

Please list them all by state, and the changes, since each state has slightly different laws. The only really universal law is the 1938 Federal ban on automatic weapons. Also please list the city ordinances you think need change as well, because , for example, the City of Chicago, with some of the strictest gun laws in the US, has just about the highest murder rate in the US.

And in your analysis, please enlighten us how your changes will get the illegal guns off the streets, and identify those with potential mental health problems , BEFORE they show any predilection for violence .


Maisie2013 66F
16211 posts
11/15/2017 9:14 am

    Quoting Katie_au_lait:
    "Guilt by association is meaningless, right Skariff ?"

    And, of course, you never do that right maisie???

    Only in every blog you write.

Unlike yourself, I did not blame a gun owner in Nebraska for the California shooting.
Perhaps you should have included the Framers of our Constitution for writing the 2nd Amendment in your accusations.

I take people at their word, and for membership in the group with which they self-identify.
I assume people are giving their actual opinion when they express one.
I have never generalized about any group, unless they generalize about themselves.


Maisie2013 66F
16211 posts
11/15/2017 9:35 am

    Quoting Katie_au_lait:
    Yes they are...by blocking any alteration to gun-laws you make yourself complicit in the murder of hundreds of Americans. You are sitting back allowing it to happen So, yes you are part of the problem.

    Your head is so far up your arse, you'll be biting your tongue if you are not careful.
BTW- there are laws on the books in California, which would have prevented the shooter from having them. He had a restraining order, and had stabbed a neighbor. But he already had the guns. So what law would have taken away his guns? Pass a law that the police must search your house, vehicle , or anywhere else you might hide them if you are convicted of a crime?
Where do you stop searching? Your relatives ? Dig up your back yard? See if you rented a storage space under a fake name? Put them in a friend's storage space , without their knowledge?
In other words,, a law on the books does not mean it works.


LeafExchange 66M
993 posts
11/15/2017 9:53 am

There are NO, ZERO, ZIP responsible gun owners. Every one of them has a thirst for destruction, or poaching, or killing, or abuse or crime or drug abuse or they suffer from a paranoia requiring counseling. Some may be associated with weapons in a market capacity and these people are evil goons that will resort to anything they can get away with for a buck.


sparkleflit 70F
1520 posts
11/15/2017 11:15 am

    Quoting Maisie2013:
    Unlike yourself, I did not blame a gun owner in Nebraska for the California shooting.
    Perhaps you should have included the Framers of our Constitution for writing the 2nd Amendment in your accusations.

    I take people at their word, and for membership in the group with which they self-identify.
    I assume people are giving their actual opinion when they express one.
    I have never generalized about any group, unless they generalize about themselves.
"I have never generalized about any group, unless they generalize about themselves."..


Katie_au_lait 71F
5589 posts
11/15/2017 12:05 pm

My reaction too too Sparkle!

These spring to mind...

"THE LEFTIES."
"The Muslims
"The Blacks"
"VEGANS"
"Lazy poor people"
The oldies and their puppy pics in SFF!!!!
Protesters...but only "leftie" protesters!!!
Anti - Gun folk
Pro-choice folk.
Lazy Mexicans.

SHE DOESN'T LIKE ANYBODY, really.

I could go on...but I can think of better things to do.


sparkleflit 70F
1520 posts
11/15/2017 3:18 pm

    Quoting Katie_au_lait:
    My reaction too too Sparkle!

    These spring to mind...

    "THE LEFTIES."
    "The Muslims
    "The Blacks"
    "VEGANS"
    "Lazy poor people"
    The oldies and their puppy pics in SFF!!!!
    Protesters...but only "leftie" protesters!!!
    Anti - Gun folk
    Pro-choice folk.
    Lazy Mexicans.

    SHE DOESN'T LIKE ANYBODY, really.

    I could go on...but I can think of better things to do.


I was once friends with this very controlling guy.....He wrote instruction booklets as part of his job. But he also wanted to be spontaneous and creative.....
He was in a band...A Rock/Blues band.....I knew all the guys in the band and they were always griping about how he was always laying down rules and always breaking them, somehow believing that only he could break them because he made them........He had a T-shirt with "Makin and Breakin The Rules".....printed.... black shirt with large white letters.......Easily readable by the audience......And he wore that shirt at every performance for years.........He was really proud of it.......Maisie has a shirt like that and wears it when she posts on this site...She seems to take great pride in that shirt......


bigblock46 71M
5656 posts
11/15/2017 5:30 pm

    Quoting Maisie2013:
    Since you are the expert- what exact changes would you make to the current laws? I will leave this an open-ended question so you are free to be as creative as you want.

    Please list them all by state, and the changes, since each state has slightly different laws. The only really universal law is the 1938 Federal ban on automatic weapons. Also please list the city ordinances you think need change as well, because , for example, the City of Chicago, with some of the strictest gun laws in the US, has just about the highest murder rate in the US.

    And in your analysis, please enlighten us how your changes will get the illegal guns off the streets, and identify those with potential mental health problems , BEFORE they show any predilection for violence .


I see by the responses you have received, there seems to be no answer to your challenge. Its the same old tired rhetoric from the left. A lot of bluster and no solutions.


Maisie2013 66F
16211 posts
11/15/2017 6:22 pm

    Quoting Katie_au_lait:
    My reaction too too Sparkle!

    These spring to mind...

    "THE LEFTIES."
    "The Muslims
    "The Blacks"
    "VEGANS"
    "Lazy poor people"
    The oldies and their puppy pics in SFF!!!!
    Protesters...but only "leftie" protesters!!!
    Anti - Gun folk
    Pro-choice folk.
    Lazy Mexicans.

    SHE DOESN'T LIKE ANYBODY, really.

    I could go on...but I can think of better things to do.


I have NEVER called poor people or Mexicans lazy. People in the US should have the Mexican work ethic.
Muslims, Blacks, Vegans, pro-choice , anti-gun are all English language words identifying groups. Would it make you feel better if I said :

" A type of vegetarian who excludes meat, eggs, dairy products and all other animal-derived ingredients from their diet and some do not eat foods that are processed using animal products, such as refined white sugar and some wines. "


Maisie2013 66F
16211 posts
11/15/2017 6:28 pm

    Quoting bigblock46:
    I see by the responses you have received, there seems to be no answer to your challenge. Its the same old tired rhetoric from the left. A lot of bluster and no solutions.
After a horrible mass shooting, that is not the result of Radical Islam, there is always a cry for passing laws. But no one can identify exactly WHICH laws would have prevented it , that are not already on the books.
If the shooter is a Islamacist, we are scolded " not to rush to judgement . And instead of calling for gun laws, we get lectures on multiculturalism.
".


Maisie2013 66F
16211 posts
11/15/2017 6:38 pm

    Quoting LeafExchange:
    There are NO, ZERO, ZIP responsible gun owners. Every one of them has a thirst for destruction, or poaching, or killing, or abuse or crime or drug abuse or they suffer from a paranoia requiring counseling. Some may be associated with weapons in a market capacity and these people are evil goons that will resort to anything they can get away with for a buck.
Looks like you are out of step with your fellow Democrats in VA. The exit poll conducted by Edison Media Research on Election Day showed that people who said gun policy was their top voting issue were as likely to vote for the Northam, the candidate who supported gun-safety measures, as for Ed Gillespie who gets an A from the NRA.

And all those " thirsty for destruction" gun owners, the ones just itching to shoot up a bus load of nuns sure do include a lot of Democrat Congress people. Here's a 2013 list. I had no idea YOUR two Senators were drug addicts.

Rep. Ann Kirkpatrick
Rep. Bennie Thompson
Rep. Dina Titus
Rep. Dutch Ruppersberger
Rep. Jared Huffman
Rep. Jim Cooper
Rep. Jim Costa
Rep. John Carney
Rep. John Garamendi
Rep. Keith Ellison
Rep. Mike Thompson
Rep. Peter DeFazio
Rep. Peter Welch
Rep. Rick Nolan
Rep. Ron Kind
Rep. Steve Cohen
Rep. Tim Ryan
Sen. Gary Peters
Sen. Harry Reid
Sen. Mark Warner
Sen. Martin Heinrich
Sen. Patrick Leahy
Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse
Sen. Tammy Baldwin
Sen. Tim Kaine
Sen. Tom Carper


DanDee1952 65M
18080 posts
11/15/2017 8:52 pm

    Quoting Maisie2013:
    Looks like you are out of step with your fellow Democrats in VA. The exit poll conducted by Edison Media Research on Election Day showed that people who said gun policy was their top voting issue were as likely to vote for the Northam, the candidate who supported gun-safety measures, as for Ed Gillespie who gets an A from the NRA.

    And all those " thirsty for destruction" gun owners, the ones just itching to shoot up a bus load of nuns sure do include a lot of Democrat Congress people. Here's a 2013 list. I had no idea YOUR two Senators were drug addicts.

    Rep. Ann Kirkpatrick
    Rep. Bennie Thompson
    Rep. Dina Titus
    Rep. Dutch Ruppersberger
    Rep. Jared Huffman
    Rep. Jim Cooper
    Rep. Jim Costa
    Rep. John Carney
    Rep. John Garamendi
    Rep. Keith Ellison
    Rep. Mike Thompson
    Rep. Peter DeFazio
    Rep. Peter Welch
    Rep. Rick Nolan
    Rep. Ron Kind
    Rep. Steve Cohen
    Rep. Tim Ryan
    Sen. Gary Peters
    Sen. Harry Reid
    Sen. Mark Warner
    Sen. Martin Heinrich
    Sen. Patrick Leahy
    Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse
    Sen. Tammy Baldwin
    Sen. Tim Kaine
    Sen. Tom Carper

you are correct, so did Senator Diane Feinstein, she had a concealed permit for years until she had an epiphany. She got rid of the gun and bought two armed guards for her personal security. Oy!

No wonder she wants to ban guns, she has armed security


boogie7102 72F
48 posts
11/15/2017 9:26 pm

    Quoting Katie_au_lait:
    Yes they are...by blocking any alteration to gun-laws you make yourself complicit in the murder of hundreds of Americans. You are sitting back allowing it to happen So, yes you are part of the problem.

    Your head is so far up your arse, you'll be biting your tongue if you are not careful.
Katie, many look at the issue of gun control as black or white, all or non . I think you are correct in saying an alternation is necessary. No person is suggesting that the right to own a gun should be taken away, rather more restrictions be placed on the purchase and ownership. I shot a fully automatic rifle about 10 years ago and the power behind that gun was terrifying. The gun was from South Africa and has since been completely taken apart and legally destroyed. It had been brought into a gun shop by someone who knew nothing about it.


Katie_au_lait 71F
5589 posts
11/15/2017 11:24 pm

    Quoting boogie7102:
    Katie, many look at the issue of gun control as black or white, all or non . I think you are correct in saying an alternation is necessary. No person is suggesting that the right to own a gun should be taken away, rather more restrictions be placed on the purchase and ownership. I shot a fully automatic rifle about 10 years ago and the power behind that gun was terrifying. The gun was from South Africa and has since been completely taken apart and legally destroyed. It had been brought into a gun shop by someone who knew nothing about it.
Boogie, it's good to hear some good common sense. To my thinking, the "gun issue" in America (or anywhere else, for that matter) is not a political or religious problem. It goes much further than that. It's a humanitarian problem.
There has always been a "gun problem" in America'' regardless of what political stance, religious creed, or whatever, is in favour.

When human beings are killed and injured, standing back and saying "Oh well, that's Chicago, for you" or saying it's a "mental health issue" or blaming "the authorities" for inaction... is not an option. Especially while, at the same time you are restricting the abilities of said "authorities" by denying them the right to put limits on gun sales.

I find it very sad that opposition to gun control and depriving people of proper health care (which would obviously be included) seem to go hand in hand coupled with denying benefits...even a living wage. All of it because some people don't want to pay taxes...takes precedence over human life.

How can any human being profess belief in "Thou shalt not kill" and do absolutely nothing to stop the killing. I am an atheist, even so I firmly believe in that rule...so, if I stand back...I am also part of the problem.

You are right, it's a thousand shades of grey


bigblock46 71M
5656 posts
11/16/2017 4:52 am

    Quoting Katie_au_lait:
    Boogie, it's good to hear some good common sense. To my thinking, the "gun issue" in America (or anywhere else, for that matter) is not a political or religious problem. It goes much further than that. It's a humanitarian problem.
    There has always been a "gun problem" in America'' regardless of what political stance, religious creed, or whatever, is in favour.

    When human beings are killed and injured, standing back and saying "Oh well, that's Chicago, for you" or saying it's a "mental health issue" or blaming "the authorities" for inaction... is not an option. Especially while, at the same time you are restricting the abilities of said "authorities" by denying them the right to put limits on gun sales.

    I find it very sad that opposition to gun control and depriving people of proper health care (which would obviously be included) seem to go hand in hand coupled with denying benefits...even a living wage. All of it because some people don't want to pay taxes...takes precedence over human life.

    How can any human being profess belief in "Thou shalt not kill" and do absolutely nothing to stop the killing. I am an atheist, even so I firmly believe in that rule...so, if I stand back...I am also part of the problem.

    You are right, it's a thousand shades of grey

"How can any human being profess belief in "Thou shalt not kill" and do absolutely nothing to stop the killing. I am an atheist, even so I firmly believe in that rule...so, if I stand back...I am also part of the problem."

How can you make such a statement and accept the destruction of human life by abortion?


Maisie2013 66F
16211 posts
11/16/2017 5:53 am

    Quoting Katie_au_lait:
    Boogie, it's good to hear some good common sense. To my thinking, the "gun issue" in America (or anywhere else, for that matter) is not a political or religious problem. It goes much further than that. It's a humanitarian problem.
    There has always been a "gun problem" in America'' regardless of what political stance, religious creed, or whatever, is in favour.

    When human beings are killed and injured, standing back and saying "Oh well, that's Chicago, for you" or saying it's a "mental health issue" or blaming "the authorities" for inaction... is not an option. Especially while, at the same time you are restricting the abilities of said "authorities" by denying them the right to put limits on gun sales.

    I find it very sad that opposition to gun control and depriving people of proper health care (which would obviously be included) seem to go hand in hand coupled with denying benefits...even a living wage. All of it because some people don't want to pay taxes...takes precedence over human life.

    How can any human being profess belief in "Thou shalt not kill" and do absolutely nothing to stop the killing. I am an atheist, even so I firmly believe in that rule...so, if I stand back...I am also part of the problem.

    You are right, it's a thousand shades of grey

Again, you dodge the issue.
What laws, other than the ones that are on the books , would have stopped the killing in California ? Outline it for us.
The Texas killer was stopped by a private citizen and former NRA instructor with a gun. Would you prefer he NOT have the gun which stopped the killer?

You make sweeping generalizations, but would bet money, you do not, in the slightest, understand our gun laws.

I criticize Chicago for gang violence with illegal guns, and the high murder rate, despite their strict gun laws. What would YOU to do to stop it?
What is your plan for addressing the violent mentally ill who already own guns, steal them, or got them illegally?
How would you ensure the " authorities" get to the scene of an active shooting in time ?
You demand everyone admit that if others , not yourself , can't come up with solutions , they might as well have pulled the trigger themselves.
This makes nice posturing from thousands of miles away, but in reality, you are not as interested in solving a problem as you are in your posturing and criticism.


Katie_au_lait 71F
5589 posts
11/16/2017 8:10 am

    Quoting Maisie2013:
    Again, you dodge the issue.
    What laws, other than the ones that are on the books , would have stopped the killing in California ? Outline it for us.
    The Texas killer was stopped by a private citizen and former NRA instructor with a gun. Would you prefer he NOT have the gun which stopped the killer?

    You make sweeping generalizations, but would bet money, you do not, in the slightest, understand our gun laws.

    I criticize Chicago for gang violence with illegal guns, and the high murder rate, despite their strict gun laws. What would YOU to do to stop it?
    What is your plan for addressing the violent mentally ill who already own guns, steal them, or got them illegally?
    How would you ensure the " authorities" get to the scene of an active shooting in time ?
    You demand everyone admit that if others , not yourself , can't come up with solutions , they might as well have pulled the trigger themselves.
    This makes nice posturing from thousands of miles away, but in reality, you are not as interested in solving a problem as you are in your posturing and criticism.
I didn't avoid the "issue", I ignored your "question" because you already know the answer I would give. But here's my answer anyway.

First... make gun laws the same in every state...and tighten them up. Make assault weapons impossible to sell to the public. Who really needs AK-47'S and worse? It's no good talking about "protecting your country" and standing by doing nothing.

Second...create an agency to be solely responsible for policing those laws and investigating crimes associated with them. Another idea would be to have an agency (similar to the UK's NCA). Make domestic violence a major crime with
custodial punishment.

Third...if you think all mass shooters are mentally disturbed...why are you so intent on removing sensible health care for all?. Surely, common sense dictates that health care is more essential than ever, when so many Americans are so mentally ill that they have to go out and kill hundreds of their own people?
Not every mentally ill person kills...nowhere near it. But quite a lot of people make that or the actions of criminals an excuse for doing nothing.

I noticed where you said you chose to be on the opposite side from liberals because you "saw the way they were going" It couldn't be that it was just because you didn't agree with them ? And since you made that choice, in your mind, they have been to blame for absolutely everything that is wrong with your country. You don't even realise that whole mindset is completely impossible...nobody can wrong all of the time...nor right all the time, for that matter! People change, times change and human needs change.

BTW...does this sound as though I absolve myself from involvement?

How can any human being profess belief in "Thou shalt not kill" and do absolutely nothing to stop the killing. I am an atheist, even so I firmly believe in that rule...so, if I stand back...I am also part of the problem.

"You demand everyone admit that if others , not yourself , can't come up with solutions , they might as well have pulled the trigger themselves"

Yes...I DO believe that. Any decent human being would...It's our duty as part of the human race. Don't you?


Skariff2 65M
2466 posts
11/16/2017 12:41 pm

    Quoting Maisie2013:
    Again, you dodge the issue.
    What laws, other than the ones that are on the books , would have stopped the killing in California ? Outline it for us.
    The Texas killer was stopped by a private citizen and former NRA instructor with a gun. Would you prefer he NOT have the gun which stopped the killer?

    You make sweeping generalizations, but would bet money, you do not, in the slightest, understand our gun laws.

    I criticize Chicago for gang violence with illegal guns, and the high murder rate, despite their strict gun laws. What would YOU to do to stop it?
    What is your plan for addressing the violent mentally ill who already own guns, steal them, or got them illegally?
    How would you ensure the " authorities" get to the scene of an active shooting in time ?
    You demand everyone admit that if others , not yourself , can't come up with solutions , they might as well have pulled the trigger themselves.
    This makes nice posturing from thousands of miles away, but in reality, you are not as interested in solving a problem as you are in your posturing and criticism.
One of the latest talking points for the Invite the NRA Home For dinner crowd is a statement of a specific which would have stopped a specific incident. I've seen it both here and on Fox News quite a bit lately. The answer is simple, there isn't such a law.

The talking point fails to take into consideration the well established fact everything having to do with human beings is not perfect. The corollary taken from this presumptuous stance is in order to pass a realistic, reasonable and enforceable gun control law it has to be perfect and a panacea for all the ills of the exorbitant American death rate by firearms. Well, it doesn't. It doesn't because it can't. It can, however produce a significant decrease in the deaths and injuries and as the death rate decreases our safety on the streets increases.

Realistically, your statements in this response lead me to believe you are unwilling to do anything about the annual gun slaughter in the United States because you don't really care. It's of no moment to you that 30,000 people die as long as you and other pro-gun advocates have your firearms. Your possession of a firearm is more important to you than the life of another human being. Mull that over in your mind as you sit peacefully in your pew this Sunday. Posturing anyone?

Finally, I would like to see some reasonable explanation as to why it's become a paramount issue that possession of firearms be secret. Pro-gun folks constantly compare guns to cars and given a license tag number practically anyone can find out more about you than you can believe. Why shouldn't the same be true of firearms? Why shouldn't a police officer be forewarned about the house he's about to enter and whether the owner has a stash of firearms?

Prejudice cannot be conquered with logic, logic didn't instill it and logic cannot eradicate it.


sparkleflit 70F
1520 posts
11/16/2017 12:47 pm

    Quoting Maisie2013:
    After a horrible mass shooting, that is not the result of Radical Islam, there is always a cry for passing laws. But no one can identify exactly WHICH laws would have prevented it , that are not already on the books.
    If the shooter is a Islamacist, we are scolded " not to rush to judgement . And instead of calling for gun laws, we get lectures on multiculturalism. ".
I watched an interview with the guy whose truck was stolen by the perp and used for the first part of his killing spree.......To me, this short interview exposed the crux of the gun laws/mass shooting issues. The man's body language tone and words were very expressive........Keeping in mind that some of his neighbours had charged him with assault and cops had been called for possible domestic abuse, but did not gain entry, calling him "not police friendly" because he didn't open the door to them.......Didn't they consider that there might be a woman in there being abused?........Not Police Friendly? WTH.......

So this young man said that they had heard many gunshots the day before that put them on edge, but there were often gunshots in their neighbourhood because people liked target-shooting...........

Now, the pro-gun people are saying that there are strict gun laws in California,
therefor stricter gun laws wouldn't help lower the death rate from gunshots.
I gotta say......This is horrifying to those of us who live in countries where people can't and/or don't think it's OK to shoot of guns as a sport in a neighbourhood......One tries to imagine living in this atmosphere where it's normal to be surrounded by trigger-happy folks just shooting it up for entertainment.......especially if you have a neighbour who is a felon with a history of violence...........It was just this summer that I heard a news report about a toddler who picked up a gun his father was using for target practice and accidentally shot his father........something he will live with all his life.......

It's not just those who get bullets in their bodies that are victims, but all those who are psychologically and emotionally scarred..........Children who grow up in an atmosphere where gun deaths and injury could happen anytime, to anyone.....A threat of violence hanging over the heads of children for a lifetime.........


sparkleflit 70F
1520 posts
11/16/2017 1:50 pm

In my previous comment first paragraph, I meant the neighbours had charged the perpetrator with assault.....not the neighbour being interviewed......Sorry about that.....typing in a hurry.


bigblock46 71M
5656 posts
11/16/2017 1:53 pm

California is one of the toughest states on gun laws. With Connecticut and New Jersey. I will print California's for you.

California

If you're a gun owner in California, you must:

Pass a universal background check, no matter where you buy your gun
Wait at least 10 days to receive that gun (the idea here is to give law enforcement enough time to conduct the background check)
Get your handgun microstamped, which means the make, model and serial number of the gun is transferred to each cartridge case every time the gun is fired (the idea is to allow police at a crime scene to trace a gun back to its owner)
Take and pass a written safety test

You can't:

Own most assault weapons or buy and sell large-capacity ammunition magazines or .50 caliber rifles
Buy your gun through a private sale, like online or via a friend, without first going through a licensed dealer (and thus getting a background check)
Buy more than one handgun a month

Now why did you choose to ignore my question? Here I will ask it again. How can you make such a statement and accept the destruction of human life by abortion?
As of this date there have 35,472,873 abortions performed world wide. There have been over 300 since I stated to write this.


boogie7102 72F
48 posts
11/16/2017 3:53 pm

    Quoting Maisie2013:
    Again, you dodge the issue.
    What laws, other than the ones that are on the books , would have stopped the killing in California ? Outline it for us.
    The Texas killer was stopped by a private citizen and former NRA instructor with a gun. Would you prefer he NOT have the gun which stopped the killer?

    You make sweeping generalizations, but would bet money, you do not, in the slightest, understand our gun laws.

    I criticize Chicago for gang violence with illegal guns, and the high murder rate, despite their strict gun laws. What would YOU to do to stop it?
    What is your plan for addressing the violent mentally ill who already own guns, steal them, or got them illegally?
    How would you ensure the " authorities" get to the scene of an active shooting in time ?
    You demand everyone admit that if others , not yourself , can't come up with solutions , they might as well have pulled the trigger themselves.
    This makes nice posturing from thousands of miles away, but in reality, you are not as interested in solving a problem as you are in your posturing and criticism.
Np person here is "dodging the issue". We do not know what laws could have prevented this but, to put your head in the sand and accept this as normal and par for the course, is irresponsible. This is not all or non and we all will have to find a middle ground. New laws need to be formulated and some will work and some will have to be re-considered but doing nothing is not the solution.


boogie7102 72F
48 posts
11/16/2017 4:04 pm

Big block, the problem with your thinking is that we have no idea how many mass shootings have been prevented by these laws. There is no way of tracking this information other than with a self confession.


LeafExchange 66M
993 posts
11/16/2017 4:53 pm

    Quoting DanDee1952:
    you are correct, so did Senator Diane Feinstein, she had a concealed permit for years until she had an epiphany. She got rid of the gun and bought two armed guards for her personal security. Oy!

    No wonder she wants to ban guns, she has armed security
Frankly...you sir are the epitome of an unstable gun nut...you are better off with your blogs about farts and toilets.... you truly need emotional counseling.


LeafExchange 66M
993 posts
11/16/2017 4:56 pm

    Quoting Maisie2013:
    Looks like you are out of step with your fellow Democrats in VA. The exit poll conducted by Edison Media Research on Election Day showed that people who said gun policy was their top voting issue were as likely to vote for the Northam, the candidate who supported gun-safety measures, as for Ed Gillespie who gets an A from the NRA.

    And all those " thirsty for destruction" gun owners, the ones just itching to shoot up a bus load of nuns sure do include a lot of Democrat Congress people. Here's a 2013 list. I had no idea YOUR two Senators were drug addicts.

    Rep. Ann Kirkpatrick
    Rep. Bennie Thompson
    Rep. Dina Titus
    Rep. Dutch Ruppersberger
    Rep. Jared Huffman
    Rep. Jim Cooper
    Rep. Jim Costa
    Rep. John Carney
    Rep. John Garamendi
    Rep. Keith Ellison
    Rep. Mike Thompson
    Rep. Peter DeFazio
    Rep. Peter Welch
    Rep. Rick Nolan
    Rep. Ron Kind
    Rep. Steve Cohen
    Rep. Tim Ryan
    Sen. Gary Peters
    Sen. Harry Reid
    Sen. Mark Warner
    Sen. Martin Heinrich
    Sen. Patrick Leahy
    Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse
    Sen. Tammy Baldwin
    Sen. Tim Kaine
    Sen. Tom Carper

I think you are more than just an unstable gun nut, you're a racist gun nut. But you aren't the only the racist here, or unstable mind. The place is full of gnats.


LeafExchange 66M
993 posts
11/16/2017 4:58 pm

    Quoting bigblock46:
    I see by the responses you have received, there seems to be no answer to your challenge. Its the same old tired rhetoric from the left. A lot of bluster and no solutions.
How about a law in Iowa that STUPID people have to surrender their guns.


bob77O21__ 74M
7551 posts
11/16/2017 10:22 pm

    Quoting LeafExchange:
    Frankly...you sir are the epitome of an unstable gun nut...you are better off with your blogs about farts and toilets.... you truly need emotional counseling.
And you..truly need to drink your tea.


bigblock46 71M
5656 posts
11/17/2017 5:58 am

    Quoting LeafExchange:
    How about a law in Iowa that STUPID people have to surrender their guns.
Bob is right you need to go drink your tea.