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sparkleflit 70F
878 posts
11/25/2017 5:35 pm
THE PASSIVE VOICE SPEAKS UP



sparkleflit 70F
1520 posts
11/25/2017 5:35 pm

***


Katie_au_lait 71F
5589 posts
11/25/2017 9:33 pm


Rocketship 73F
14368 posts
11/25/2017 10:20 pm

How interesting, and very true!!

I hadn't looked at it that way!!!


jiminycricket1 67M
8164 posts
11/26/2017 4:11 am

Here's a good one to ponder...

How many women have lost their virginity?

How many different men have taken a women's virginity?

It's not a simple answer..... like one to one.. I think it's the same guy, doing it over and over again.

You think we should talk about the one *st or his many victims?

I hear it here all the time... victim-hood, oppression, gender bias, racial bias, political bias and labeling. It screams it... without ever saying it...

Now i personally don't believe it, don't really care... but to counteract the point of your blog....which is biased... Let me give you a different biased scenario........

Women create their own victim-hood.....In a society they set up.. which doesn't give a free pass to ALL men... but to men of wealth, power, and good looks....
And diss those that don't have it. The deserving and the undeserving man is a women creation, not a man's....a man's is far more reactionary.

Let me answer my question..

Almost all women lose their virginity.
but only deserving men can take it, and women get decide who they are. The irony for most women about that decision is almost always the wrong one.
.


jiminycricket1 67M
8164 posts
11/26/2017 5:03 am

The worst thing you can do to a bull.. Is take away his china closet!


joannita 63F
1050 posts
11/26/2017 7:00 am

very good point!!!!
jo


sparkleflit 70F
1520 posts
11/26/2017 10:26 am

    Quoting jiminycricket1:
    The worst thing you can do to a bull.. Is take away his china closet!
The worst thing you can do to a jiminycricket is to take away his bullshit.


sparkleflit 70F
1520 posts
11/26/2017 10:31 am

    Quoting jiminycricket1:
    Here's a good one to ponder...

    How many women have lost their virginity?

    How many different men have taken a women's virginity?

    It's not a simple answer..... like one to one.. I think it's the same guy, doing it over and over again.

    You think we should talk about the one *st or his many victims?

    I hear it here all the time... victim-hood, oppression, gender bias, racial bias, political bias and labeling. It screams it... without ever saying it...

    Now i personally don't believe it, don't really care... but to counteract the point of your blog....which is biased... Let me give you a different biased scenario........

    Women create their own victim-hood.....In a society they set up.. which doesn't give a free pass to ALL men... but to men of wealth, power, and good looks....
    And diss those that don't have it. The deserving and the undeserving man is a women creation, not a man's....a man's is far more reactionary.

    Let me answer my question..

    Almost all women lose their virginity.
    but only deserving men can take it, and women get decide who they are. The irony for most women about that decision is almost always the wrong one..
How many women have "Lost their virginity?......What year are you living in?.......some Victorian romance novel apparently........


Katie_au_lait 71F
5589 posts
11/26/2017 11:33 am

    Quoting sparkleflit:
    The worst thing you can do to a jiminycricket is to take away his bullshit.
Jiminy...sorry, but if you are really saying that women create their own "victimhood" I have to say you have got it wrong.

First of all...you never heard of sexual abuse until the last twenty years...not because it wasn't there, but because it was a taboo subject. It was not to be discussed under any circumstances. That, and only that is what made women victims. Abuse has always been there... and society made it easy for the abusers to hide it.

To get to where women are now has taken many years, and many strong women fighting a war on abuse. Not just in your country, but all over the world women still die at the hands of men. If you believe that makes us "victims" take a look at the almost unbelievable amount of men now being charged with abuse. Almost every day there is news about another man stopped in his tracks.
That's the result of women now refusing to stand for men forcing them to accept any form of abusive behaviour. And that is not going away...it took too many years and too much pain to ever go back and submit to being subservient to abusers.

Basically, abusive men (not all men) are cowards and bullies...and have been all their lives simply because they THINK women are there to serve their every whim. Whether it's "only"
emotional abuse or some other violence they will never again be so sure they can get away with it.

It's taken thousands of years but we are finally beginning slowly but surely to turn the tide.

If you think we are making ourselves victims, you really don't understand.


sewg1941 76F
162 posts
11/26/2017 12:15 pm

Personally I feel that the negative sexual issue between men and women should be laid at the feet of 'RELIGION'! The male of the species thinks with a smaller head most of the time and feels he is 'entitled' to make passes that are less then welcoming!

Religion teaches that men are superior and most men stop reading there... they don't read the qualifiers and aren't taught the qualifiers. 75% of all men have absolutely no respect for women and, as a result, women are beginning to think the same of men. If good men who are in power do not call out the men who abuse they are guilty of complicity.


sewg1941 76F
162 posts
11/26/2017 12:19 pm

BTW .... damn good blog... best I've read in ages!


sparkleflit 70F
1520 posts
11/26/2017 1:36 pm

About a decade ago, I was on the selection committee of the board of an arts organization. We examined hundreds of admissions. One of them was from a young woman who was a reporter on her high-school paper, interviewed students and asked them what first impression of another person they were most s*xually turned on by......the answer in a great number of cases was when the other person's gender was ambiguous...... This really intrigued me and has interested me since then.....I have encountered many such ambiguities since then and gathered as much information from real-life situations as I could. I have been fortunate in having friends of many persuasions.....Perhaps because of being relatively well known in artistic circles gives me the opportunity of having discussions with thinking young people living on the fringes of society.

These acquaintances led me to young Canadian author and public speaker Ivan Coyote.......A trans man. Ivan is very self-aware, intelligent and articulate and we have some mutual friends. They told me that they trust me because I acknowledge my ignorance and I'm respectful and want to learn.....I ask how they want to be addressed and I listen without prying.....Anyways, It's still very mysterious and interesting to me......this profound shift that really began in the 60s and is gaining momentum now.

This shift cannot be defined....it is too new and too febrile and fast-moving to be pinned down. The early manifestations.....the desire to shift from one socially defined gender to another.....a shift that requires life-long medical intervention, seems to be giving way to a gentler approach and a shift in the social definitions of sex/gender roles and a merging of definitions...a reluctance to define.....a discarding of definitions. I admire those who are sacrificing the comfort of certainty for the adventure of leading the charge.......I have known and loved some of those who didn't make it.....that's how I know that the shift isn't a game, or a frivolous fashion statement.....but a life and death struggle to find a new way to resolve the war of the s*xes......As valid and courageous as the explorers of the past who set off without a map.


sewg1941 76F
162 posts
11/26/2017 2:34 pm

    Quoting sparkleflit:
    About a decade ago, I was on the selection committee of the board of an arts organization. We examined hundreds of admissions. One of them was from a young woman who was a reporter on her high-school paper, interviewed students and asked them what first impression of another person they were most s*xually turned on by......the answer in a great number of cases was when the other person's gender was ambiguous...... This really intrigued me and has interested me since then.....I have encountered many such ambiguities since then and gathered as much information from real-life situations as I could. I have been fortunate in having friends of many persuasions.....Perhaps because of being relatively well known in artistic circles gives me the opportunity of having discussions with thinking young people living on the fringes of society.

    These acquaintances led me to young Canadian author and public speaker Ivan Coyote.......A trans man. Ivan is very self-aware, intelligent and articulate and we have some mutual friends. They told me that they trust me because I acknowledge my ignorance and I'm respectful and want to learn.....I ask how they want to be addressed and I listen without prying.....Anyways, It's still very mysterious and interesting to me......this profound shift that really began in the 60s and is gaining momentum now.

    This shift cannot be defined....it is too new and too febrile and fast-moving to be pinned down. The early manifestations.....the desire to shift from one socially defined gender to another.....a shift that requires life-long medical intervention, seems to be giving way to a gentler approach and a shift in the social definitions of sex/gender roles and a merging of definitions...a reluctance to define.....a discarding of definitions. I admire those who are sacrificing the comfort of certainty for the adventure of leading the charge.......I have known and loved some of those who didn't make it.....that's how I know that the shift isn't a game, or a frivolous fashion statement.....but a life and death struggle to find a new way to resolve the war of the s*xes......As valid and courageous as the explorers of the past who set off without a map.
I know what you're talking about Sparkle.. I've seen the shift myself. You see many young people in the arts ... music and fashion fields that blur the lines and I think that's a good thing.

I have a granddaughter who is lesbian and it was interesting watching her grow up. I noticed she was different when she was about 5 yrs old but looking back at old photos of her you can see it in her demeanor and stance at an even younger age.

I too have known kids that didn't make it and it's so sad. I hope that parents of these young people are more accepting these days. It's heartbreaking to see the agony these kids go through.

I have reason to relate to the shift...I only have to look in the mirror!


sparkleflit 70F
1520 posts
11/26/2017 4:31 pm

    Quoting sewg1941:
    I know what you're talking about Sparkle.. I've seen the shift myself. You see many young people in the arts ... music and fashion fields that blur the lines and I think that's a good thing.

    I have a granddaughter who is lesbian and it was interesting watching her grow up. I noticed she was different when she was about 5 yrs old but looking back at old photos of her you can see it in her demeanor and stance at an even younger age.

    I too have known kids that didn't make it and it's so sad. I hope that parents of these young people are more accepting these days. It's heartbreaking to see the agony these kids go through.

    I have reason to relate to the shift...I only have to look in the mirror!
I really appreciate your compassionate response. I attended a memorial service this summer for one of those who didn't make it. He was the most creative person I've ever met. He took his own life the day after a very successful showing of his work. Brilliant stuff. He was well known in Victoria for his gorgeous tagging and had many followers.....I met him when he was 15 and he was 24 when he ended it. I went to one of his memorials and was amazed.
His following have such a deep reluctance to let him go that they have kept his facebook page alive and they are still posting art and poetry and photos of him and his work and murals and other art that they have created in his honour.

He was a master of balancing that line ....no, not that, I was going to say "between", but I don't think there was any "between" for him......He seemed to encompass an ideal and to illustrate with his art, the apparent ideal of that neutral ground where male and female merge.......What makes me afraid for them, though, is that they have idealized something that caused him to take his own life.......Or maybe the gender factor had nothing to do with him ending his life.

I remember in the 60s, there was this prediction in the arts community that the future held a third s*x.....but the projection doesn't hold much resemblance to the actuality. The reason this has come up for me right now is because a 17 year old girl I know and love just came out as a boy. Everyone around her, parents, friends.....are all supportive. She is an only child, born to parents in their 40s......Very successful people who have a lot of varied interests and accomplishments. Her mother is a tutor of advanced abstract mathematics and is a concert classical pianist......She has lacked for nothing and always exceptionally well adjusted.........

Looking in the mirror.....Well, I don't own a pair of shoes I can't walk 5 kil. in.....LOL


sparkleflit 70F
1520 posts
11/26/2017 4:39 pm

    Quoting Katie_au_lait:
    Jiminy...sorry, but if you are really saying that women create their own "victimhood" I have to say you have got it wrong.

    First of all...you never heard of sexual abuse until the last twenty years...not because it wasn't there, but because it was a taboo subject. It was not to be discussed under any circumstances. That, and only that is what made women victims. Abuse has always been there... and society made it easy for the abusers to hide it.

    To get to where women are now has taken many years, and many strong women fighting a war on abuse. Not just in your country, but all over the world women still die at the hands of men. If you believe that makes us "victims" take a look at the almost unbelievable amount of men now being charged with abuse. Almost every day there is news about another man stopped in his tracks.
    That's the result of women now refusing to stand for men forcing them to accept any form of abusive behaviour. And that is not going away...it took too many years and too much pain to ever go back and submit to being subservient to abusers.

    Basically, abusive men (not all men) are cowards and bullies...and have been all their lives simply because they THINK women are there to serve their every whim. Whether it's "only"
    emotional abuse or some other violence they will never again be so sure they can get away with it.

    It's taken thousands of years but we are finally beginning slowly but surely to turn the tide.

    If you think we are making ourselves victims, you really don't understand.

Thank you.........Of course, boys have also been sexually abused and the same dynamics apply, but it's been mostly women, so we have been the ones who have led the way to expose it.......Have stood together and supported each other in outing the abusers.......We stand for all those who have been abused by people who use their power to trample others for their own advantage.


TxJW2 75M
2272 posts
11/26/2017 6:21 pm

So what would be the result If I walked past a woman in Home Depot and told her she was the best looking woman in the building? I have done that in the past but now would I be arrested. LOL
Best thing to do is ignore women.
Party On!


jiminycricket1 67M
8164 posts
11/27/2017 3:09 am

    Quoting sparkleflit:
    Thank you.........Of course, boys have also been sexually abused and the same dynamics apply, but it's been mostly women, so we have been the ones who have led the way to expose it.......Have stood together and supported each other in outing the abusers.......We stand for all those who have been abused by people who use their power to trample others for their own advantage.
Well, you and Katie missed my point. First , I need to reiterate... I support NO biased opinions. Even the one I gave as an example, to counteract your blog. It's all biased part truths.

It's like the fact... I am against racism, but I am also against the idea that racism is the sole property of the White race.
It should go without saying I am against men who abuse, and there are many, but in my view there are many more that aren't. We need to try to agree on a definition of what is abuse, and secondly agree that abuse is not the solely gender related. A man is not abusive to women.. because he is a MAN

We can and should fight the abuse, and mutant behavior that is gender related. but not the gender.
Too many women, make the fight against gender.
There is good and bad about each gender, and in each gender those thing not only overlap, but can easily be one and the same. Women need to be careful about the overlap, of good and bad, about BOTH their own gender and the male gender.

It's part of my consistency of thought, I see it all the same.... political tribalism, racial tribalism, and now gender tribalism. If women continue to view themselves as victims, if women wish to make this a genderless society, because the male gender is 'off' somehow.... Then they are only doing their own gender a disservice.
What does say if a women wants to throw out the male baby with the dirty bathwater?


boogie7102 72F
48 posts
11/27/2017 12:13 pm

Jimmy is right on the money with his response. I believe that men will stsrt coming forward with their stories of sexual abuse and harassment in their private lives and the workplace. Sexual abuse has been discussed and debated for well over 50 years and fades away with time. The term must be defined and gender neutral education programs taught in schools with education beginning in the home. In the 60's, proper treatment of women and equality was stressed by the women's movement. Obviously ,these lessons were not passed down nor demonstrated in the home, because the problems have escalated. I realize that this can be a highly emotional topic for those that have experienced early childhood abuse. I am not minimizing your concerns. I just believe it most be approached from a factual standpoint.


sparkleflit 70F
1520 posts
11/27/2017 12:50 pm

    Quoting TxJW2:
    So what would be the result If I walked past a woman in Home Depot and told her she was the best looking woman in the building? I have done that in the past but now would I be arrested. LOL
    Best thing to do is ignore women.
    Party On!
Informing yourself and activating your empathy would be a good place to start. Perhaps you can find a way to connect with women besides focusing on their appearance.


sparkleflit 70F
1520 posts
11/27/2017 1:13 pm

    Quoting jiminycricket1:
    Well, you and Katie missed my point. First , I need to reiterate... I support NO biased opinions. Even the one I gave as an example, to counteract your blog. It's all biased part truths.

    It's like the fact... I am against racism, but I am also against the idea that racism is the sole property of the White race.
    It should go without saying I am against men who abuse, and there are many, but in my view there are many more that aren't. We need to try to agree on a definition of what is abuse, and secondly agree that abuse is not the solely gender related. A man is not abusive to women.. because he is a MAN

    We can and should fight the abuse, and mutant behavior that is gender related. but not the gender.
    Too many women, make the fight against gender.
    There is good and bad about each gender, and in each gender those thing not only overlap, but can easily be one and the same. Women need to be careful about the overlap, of good and bad, about BOTH their own gender and the male gender.

    It's part of my consistency of thought, I see it all the same.... political tribalism, racial tribalism, and now gender tribalism. If women continue to view themselves as victims, if women wish to make this a genderless society, because the male gender is 'off' somehow.... Then they are only doing their own gender a disservice.
    What does say if a women wants to throw out the male baby with the dirty bathwater?
You "support NO biased opinions"?.......Really Jiminy, that's extremely naive of you to deny that your opinions are unbiased.....We women have been doing this work for a long time .......banding together to make a strong stance against sexual abuse.......It was women who stood up and spoke truth to power about being used.......It was women who came together to educate the law-makers and the upholders, and we are still at it.

It was never about gender, it has always been about the power differential........It has seldom even been about s*x.......It is about power.....About one Human demonstrating power over a weaker Human......That's what it's always about regardless of gender.......

Thing is, and it cannot be denied, that in most historical situations, it has been the male of the species who has had the upper hand. Sewg is right, that it has a lot to do with Patriarchal Religions..........Look at Colonialism .....The Roman Church has been behind so much Colonialism and abuse........And the Church is still grasping on to their Patriarchal stance, as are Judaism and Islam........

When men are willing to secede from Patriarchy and allow Women equal power,
you can say it has nothing to do with gender, until Trump has government that has equal nubers Men and Women, when Christians stop supporting people like Roy Moore, we can re-visit your "unbiased" opinions concerning gender power-differentials.


jiminycricket1 67M
8164 posts
11/27/2017 2:03 pm

    Quoting sparkleflit:
    You "support NO biased opinions"?.......Really Jiminy, that's extremely naive of you to deny that your opinions are unbiased.....We women have been doing this work for a long time .......banding together to make a strong stance against sexual abuse.......It was women who stood up and spoke truth to power about being used.......It was women who came together to educate the law-makers and the upholders, and we are still at it.

    It was never about gender, it has always been about the power differential........It has seldom even been about s*x.......It is about power.....About one Human demonstrating power over a weaker Human......That's what it's always about regardless of gender.......

    Thing is, and it cannot be denied, that in most historical situations, it has been the male of the species who has had the upper hand. Sewg is right, that it has a lot to do with Patriarchal Religions..........Look at Colonialism .....The Roman Church has been behind so much Colonialism and abuse........And the Church is still grasping on to their Patriarchal stance, as are Judaism and Islam........

    When men are willing to secede from Patriarchy and allow Women equal power,
    you can say it has nothing to do with gender, until Trump has government that has equal nubers Men and Women, when Christians stop supporting people like Roy Moore, we can re-visit your "unbiased" opinions concerning gender power-differentials.
Continue to take the hard line?

This is what people say......Women say... they are trying to become EQUAL in power and respect. Many men say women are trying to take over. who's right?

It may be obvious to you who's right, but not to me.
All your good intentions, can easily be interpreted as trying to take over.

More women in power positions, more women making decisions, more women in control of their lives and bodies. Women should to be respected by men, seen as equals... Just because you are woman, Just being a woman gives you that right.

So let me ask you.. where does it stop? If one woman is disrespected, then all women are disrespected? Where do you draw the line of equality? if someone disagrees with that line, is it not true that they could say they are being treated unequal.
It all can construed as gender profiling, the more you try to make GENDER the issue, the less the real issues matter. If all men are like that........ then No man will consider any other man to be like that.

Again with the irony......women are powerless when it comes to the subject of men..... if they try to take the direct approach to it.
You kid yourself to believe the solution rest with women, women's tribalism can't solve it...... the solutions rest with men not women. if you try to take the solution from men... there will be no solution.

All the stuff that happens here.. nothing changes, you're no different than maisie.
You think you know the solution, you think you got the power to make your solution happen. solving the ills of the world, when you can't even solve your own. No compromise, no need for further understanding... It's your way or the highway......well, how does it feel traveling down Route 66? With or without a bandwagon, you ain't going no where.

You want to hear my hard line.. that says a heck of lot more than you're saying about the subject. The more women bitch and moan.. the less men listen.

By the way... if you think I'm on drugs.. I would suggest you need to smoke some of the same shit.


jiminycricket1 67M
8164 posts
11/27/2017 2:50 pm

    Quoting Katie_au_lait:
    Jiminy...sorry, but if you are really saying that women create their own "victimhood" I have to say you have got it wrong.

    First of all...you never heard of sexual abuse until the last twenty years...not because it wasn't there, but because it was a taboo subject. It was not to be discussed under any circumstances. That, and only that is what made women victims. Abuse has always been there... and society made it easy for the abusers to hide it.

    To get to where women are now has taken many years, and many strong women fighting a war on abuse. Not just in your country, but all over the world women still die at the hands of men. If you believe that makes us "victims" take a look at the almost unbelievable amount of men now being charged with abuse. Almost every day there is news about another man stopped in his tracks.
    That's the result of women now refusing to stand for men forcing them to accept any form of abusive behaviour. And that is not going away...it took too many years and too much pain to ever go back and submit to being subservient to abusers.

    Basically, abusive men (not all men) are cowards and bullies...and have been all their lives simply because they THINK women are there to serve their every whim. Whether it's "only"
    emotional abuse or some other violence they will never again be so sure they can get away with it.

    It's taken thousands of years but we are finally beginning slowly but surely to turn the tide.

    If you think we are making ourselves victims, you really don't understand.

Katie.. first I wish to apologized for lumping you in with sparkle...It was unfair..
I pretty much agree with everything you said..
Just posing a different side of the issue.

What we can agree on is that men aren't very bright. And some men lust live in the dark. We can agree the abusers are the one's living in the dark. But what about the guys who aren't very bright... Well they get confused easy... they think all lights are green, and the red ones a just to get the bull going. It's not about a man thing.. it's about confused signals.
"Does she or doesn't she.. only her hairdresser knows"
Men not being very bright, and having confusing signal. can easily be swayed to believe that the Red light means stop, and the Yellow light means proceed with caution. The green light, if you ever happen to see one, says lookout there's a train coming.


sparkleflit 70F
1520 posts
11/27/2017 5:25 pm

    Quoting jiminycricket1:
    Continue to take the hard line?

    This is what people say......Women say... they are trying to become EQUAL in power and respect. Many men say women are trying to take over. who's right?

    It may be obvious to you who's right, but not to me.
    All your good intentions, can easily be interpreted as trying to take over.

    More women in power positions, more women making decisions, more women in control of their lives and bodies. Women should to be respected by men, seen as equals... Just because you are woman, Just being a woman gives you that right.

    So let me ask you.. where does it stop? If one woman is disrespected, then all women are disrespected? Where do you draw the line of equality? if someone disagrees with that line, is it not true that they could say they are being treated unequal.
    It all can construed as gender profiling, the more you try to make GENDER the issue, the less the real issues matter. If all men are like that........ then No man will consider any other man to be like that.

    Again with the irony......women are powerless when it comes to the subject of men..... if they try to take the direct approach to it.
    You kid yourself to believe the solution rest with women, women's tribalism can't solve it...... the solutions rest with men not women. if you try to take the solution from men... there will be no solution.

    All the stuff that happens here.. nothing changes, you're no different than maisie.
    You think you know the solution, you think you got the power to make your solution happen. solving the ills of the world, when you can't even solve your own. No compromise, no need for further understanding... It's your way or the highway......well, how does it feel traveling down Route 66? With or without a bandwagon, you ain't going no where.

    You want to hear my hard line.. that says a heck of lot more than you're saying about the subject. The more women bitch and moan.. the less men listen.

    By the way... if you think I'm on drugs.. I would suggest you need to smoke some of the same shit.
Thank you for illustrating why there is a problem.........You accuse me of speaking from a place of Male Tribalism......You tell me it's not about gender while attempting to defend your Patriarchal attitude......


jiminycricket1 67M
8164 posts
11/27/2017 5:59 pm

    Quoting sparkleflit:
    Thank you for illustrating why there is a problem.........You accuse me of speaking from a place of Male Tribalism......You tell me it's not about gender while attempting to defend your Patriarchal attitude......
Who are you?

When did you get stupid?

I have spoken to your so-called adversary for years, about their responses to me.

And how their misinterpretation of what i say, and their resulting responses does nothing, but prove my point.

I ain't defending anything, especially men. If anything, I'm trying to defend women. There is already enough gender tribalism. and more doesn't do either sex any good.
But I will defend myself, and how your accusations.. proves my point.


Katie_au_lait 71F
5589 posts
11/27/2017 11:06 pm

"This is what people say......Women say... they are trying to become EQUAL in power and respect. Many men say women are trying to take over. who's right?"

Women are not "trying to become equal with men"...they already are!
Without women, men wouldn't exist...without men women wouldn't exist. That is a basic fact of life which cannot be denied.

Another undeniable fact, is that throughout human history, until the last couple of centuries or so, only the clerics and the wealthy (mostly men, women were not found valuable enough to educate) were educated. They dictated the laws, morals and even the beliefs of the masses. WHO HAD NO CHOICE BUT TO BELIEVE WHAT THEY WERE TOLD. Simply because they could not refute any of it. We might not realise it...but that was abuse and it went on for thousands of years.

We have moved on since then, progressed to a completely different era and the masses now question everything they are told. Some people do not want this change which gives all of us the power, the freedom of choice to decide for ourselves. They are afraid that their power being slowly stolen away from them. They deny and denigrate it, but change is inevitable...the masses are no longer uneducated and must progress to stay in existence.

You can "lump me in with Sparkle" any day...I believe as she does.


jiminycricket1 67M
8164 posts
11/28/2017 3:09 am

    Quoting Katie_au_lait:
    "This is what people say......Women say... they are trying to become EQUAL in power and respect. Many men say women are trying to take over. who's right?"

    Women are not "trying to become equal with men"...they already are!
    Without women, men wouldn't exist...without men women wouldn't exist. That is a basic fact of life which cannot be denied.

    Another undeniable fact, is that throughout human history, until the last couple of centuries or so, only the clerics and the wealthy (mostly men, women were not found valuable enough to educate) were educated. They dictated the laws, morals and even the beliefs of the masses. WHO HAD NO CHOICE BUT TO BELIEVE WHAT THEY WERE TOLD. Simply because they could not refute any of it. We might not realise it...but that was abuse and it went on for thousands of years.

    We have moved on since then, progressed to a completely different era and the masses now question everything they are told. Some people do not want this change which gives all of us the power, the freedom of choice to decide for ourselves. They are afraid that their power being slowly stolen away from them. They deny and denigrate it, but change is inevitable...the masses are no longer uneducated and must progress to stay in existence.

    You can "lump me in with Sparkle" any day...I believe as she does.

No you're not like sparkle...

everything you said... is not against any thing I said...

if you agree with sparkle.. you would agree. that patriarchal automatically means bad. You would agree religion is both entirely patriarchal, and is men only. That religion is the cause. You would agree that since men are in charge, they hold all the responsibility for actions of all other men. You would agree that the only way to change the patriarchal systems is for women to take over.
You would expand your correct view to then justify an incorrect one.
You would never say ..."Women are not trying to become equal with men"...they already are". You see.... i agree with that statement. women are already equal. But equality doesn't have to be identical to be equal. Trying to make it identical, is trying to make it unequal. Trying to make it identical is trying to make it genderless.
As it appears liberals and Conservative can't work together so it appears that men and women cannot work together...So conservatives and women have to do it on their own. In both cases, it can't be done. In both cases it doesn't support equality.
It's a society and people issue .. not a gender issue.


sparkleflit 70F
1520 posts
11/28/2017 1:30 pm

    Quoting jiminycricket1:
    No you're not like sparkle...

    everything you said... is not against any thing I said...

    if you agree with sparkle.. you would agree. that patriarchal automatically means bad. You would agree religion is both entirely patriarchal, and is men only. That religion is the cause. You would agree that since men are in charge, they hold all the responsibility for actions of all other men. You would agree that the only way to change the patriarchal systems is for women to take over.
    You would expand your correct view to then justify an incorrect one.
    You would never say ..."Women are not trying to become equal with men"...they already are". You see.... i agree with that statement. women are already equal. But equality doesn't have to be identical to be equal. Trying to make it identical, is trying to make it unequal. Trying to make it identical is trying to make it genderless.
    As it appears liberals and Conservative can't work together so it appears that men and women cannot work together...So conservatives and women have to do it on their own. In both cases, it can't be done. In both cases it doesn't support equality.
    It's a society and people issue .. not a gender issue.
Women get to decide what their equality looks like....I agree with the statement that women are equal to men in the sense of being intrinsically worthy,
but women clearly and obviously do not have equal power politically and socially in most of the World.

I also agree with you that equality does not have to be identical in order to be equal. That, however, is up to individuals, not for us to generalize. To clarify, "S*x" is usually the word used in reference to physical differences and "Gender" is used for Socially generated differences. It's impossible to discuss equality without this distinction.

When we were growing up, society was really hung up on Men and Women maintaining the uniform outward props that signalled the s*x of each person.....it was usually a reliable signal and the cultural pressure to adhere to that uniformity. The culture has changed drastically since we were growing up and all we can really do is watch......Who knows how the cultural pendulum will swing, but going by the view from my window, the genders are merging and new definitions of what it is to be male or female are changing...........As I expressed earlier on this blog.........Identical is not anyone's ideal and young people are merging into groups that depend on other identifiers besides gender or se*x


jiminycricket1 67M
8164 posts
11/28/2017 3:10 pm

A couple of things... first. most men don't think of themselves as men.. it's just not a cognizant reality .. The power from being a man, means virtually nothing to most men, they just don't think about it.
Some do.. they are easy to pick out.......religious fanactics, narcisissists, homophobes, and power grabbers.
the Roy Moores and the Donald Trumps are easily identifiable.

Most men are just the opposite when it comes to gender and sex... I know, I have no power over women... my entire life has told me that. regardless of what society and religion says, I should have.....women tell me differently. I only wish I had the power over women that women hold over me.
A woman greatest advantage over men is to play down society, and NOT be confrontational... don't force a man to think of himself as a man.

You may believe it's beneath you to get a man to do what you want, by letting him think it's his idea...... No matter how you think about it .. it works.
Try being confrontational and get him do what you want.. see if that works.
It won't with men, nor most likely with anyone else..
Most Men only think of themselves as men when they are confronted with the idea.....what they are doing is not manly....without confrontation it never crosses their mind.

women have intrinsically evolved believing they can change men.. It's part of women nature. One that is NOT a fantasy... it's a reality...but you got to do it the right way.
A man doesn't think himself as a man, until a women tells him... He can't be a man, he's got to be more like a women. That's when the fit hits the sham.


sparkleflit 70F
1520 posts
11/28/2017 4:51 pm

    Quoting jiminycricket1:
    A couple of things... first. most men don't think of themselves as men.. it's just not a cognizant reality .. The power from being a man, means virtually nothing to most men, they just don't think about it.
    Some do.. they are easy to pick out.......religious fanactics, narcisissists, homophobes, and power grabbers.
    the Roy Moores and the Donald Trumps are easily identifiable.

    Most men are just the opposite when it comes to gender and sex... I know, I have no power over women... my entire life has told me that. regardless of what society and religion says, I should have.....women tell me differently. I only wish I had the power over women that women hold over me.
    A woman greatest advantage over men is to play down society, and NOT be confrontational... don't force a man to think of himself as a man.

    You may believe it's beneath you to get a man to do what you want, by letting him think it's his idea...... No matter how you think about it .. it works.
    Try being confrontational and get him do what you want.. see if that works.
    It won't with men, nor most likely with anyone else..
    Most Men only think of themselves as men when they are confronted with the idea.....what they are doing is not manly....without confrontation it never crosses their mind.

    women have intrinsically evolved believing they can change men.. It's part of women nature. One that is NOT a fantasy... it's a reality...but you got to do it the right way.
    A man doesn't think himself as a man, until a women tells him... He can't be a man, he's got to be more like a women. That's when the fit hits the sham.
Well, Jiminy, you apparently hang out with a lot of un-awake people.......But hey,
whatever turns your crank, man......


jiminycricket1 67M
8164 posts
11/29/2017 3:09 am

    Quoting sparkleflit:
    Well, Jiminy, you apparently hang out with a lot of un-awake people.......But hey,
    whatever turns your crank, man......
The perpetrator or the victim.....If you had to make choice which would it be?

Most would give the obvious answer..but for me, it's not so obvious.

To me it's a choice to be victim of yourself or a victim of someone else.

It paralyses and confuses me!... But I definitely lean towards being the victim.


TxJW2 75M
2272 posts
12/1/2017 8:27 pm

Well I already know a few things about ladies, but thanks for the guidance.
What was a complement in the past can be an unwanted advance now.

There are many ways to start a conversation. When I see a lady the only thing I know about her is what I see. Commenting on how another person looks gains more friends than talking about the weather.

If I see a lady wearing combat boots and cowgirl hat I can start a conversation about the boots and hat and be safe but soon forgotten.

Party On!


middleprong1 63M  
11 posts
12/14/2017 7:20 am

Men are just starting to think about this.
Women have known it all their lives.
(unfair debate)